倫敦市長設(shè)計(jì)顧問眼中的城市設(shè)計(jì)

[被采訪者] 彼得·畢舍普 / [Interviewee] Peter Bishop

[采訪時(shí)間] 2019年6月13日 / [Date] June 13, 2019

[采訪地點(diǎn)] 英國倫敦大學(xué)學(xué)院，巴特萊特建筑學(xué)院 / [Place] University College London, UK

[記錄整理] 陳冉 / [Interviewer] CHEN Ran

[英文翻譯] 陳冉 / [Translator] CHEN Ran

第一部分 城市設(shè)計(jì)實(shí)踐與研究

Q1 您主導(dǎo)了很多倫敦著名的城市更新項(xiàng)目，請問您最喜歡的項(xiàng)目是哪一個(gè)？

我（圖1）不得不說是國王十字區(qū)域城市復(fù)興項(xiàng)目。我在此項(xiàng)目中工作了6年，與各領(lǐng)域杰出的團(tuán)隊(duì)共同推進(jìn)項(xiàng)目，同時(shí)也進(jìn)行了很多激烈的談判。我們創(chuàng)造了一個(gè)全球城市更新范例，吸引各界人士來此訪問、參觀、學(xué)習(xí)與生活。到目前為止，我還未發(fā)現(xiàn)此項(xiàng)目的設(shè)計(jì)疏漏，或許有些公共空間比實(shí)際需要的稍大了一些。

Q2 您在設(shè)計(jì)國王十字區(qū)域城市復(fù)興項(xiàng)目中是否過遇到重大挑戰(zhàn)？

我從來沒有懷疑過團(tuán)隊(duì)會創(chuàng)造出一個(gè)好的項(xiàng)目。項(xiàng)目開發(fā)商擁有長期股權(quán)，每個(gè)規(guī)劃師和設(shè)計(jì)師都給予了堅(jiān)定的支持。每個(gè)人都希望這個(gè)項(xiàng)目不僅著眼于當(dāng)下，而且在10年、30年、50年、100年后都有其價(jià)值和意義。然而在整個(gè)過程中，我們的確遇到諸多挑戰(zhàn)，最大的挑戰(zhàn)是如何建立與場地的關(guān)聯(lián)。雖然歐洲最發(fā)達(dá)的區(qū)域之一—盧姆斯伯里（Bloomsbury）就在不遠(yuǎn)處，但國王十字車站附近區(qū)域本身是一個(gè)貧困的舊工業(yè)區(qū)。

為了建立與場地的關(guān)聯(lián)，我們將項(xiàng)目開展的起始點(diǎn)放在與當(dāng)?shù)鼐用裣⑾⑾嚓P(guān)的一系列問題上：①這個(gè)城市的更新需要會對當(dāng)?shù)鼐用竦纳町a(chǎn)生怎樣的影響?②我們?nèi)绾伪苊馑蔀橐粋€(gè)被發(fā)達(dá)區(qū)域包裹的貧困區(qū)域?③我們?nèi)绾伪苊馑蔀橐粋€(gè)讓當(dāng)?shù)鼐用窀械讲皇娣膮^(qū)域？

還有一個(gè)有趣的挑戰(zhàn)是關(guān)于協(xié)調(diào)各方利益的。這個(gè)項(xiàng)目涉及諸多政府機(jī)構(gòu)和利益集團(tuán)，很多人都有不同的觀點(diǎn)和主張，他們都希望發(fā)出自己的聲音。所以，與各個(gè)利益相關(guān)者談判并達(dá)到和諧是此項(xiàng)目第二個(gè)巨大的挑戰(zhàn)。

Q3 您能簡單談一下國王十字復(fù)興項(xiàng)目的城市設(shè)計(jì)過程嗎？

在英國，常規(guī)的過程是土地所有者與開發(fā)商合作，協(xié)商決定如何將回報(bào)最大化。初步設(shè)計(jì)后提交規(guī)劃審核。規(guī)劃部門提出修改意見，開發(fā)商與設(shè)計(jì)方再進(jìn)行修改，再次提交當(dāng)?shù)匾?guī)劃部門。然而，國王十字區(qū)域復(fù)興項(xiàng)目（圖2—圖5）的城市設(shè)計(jì)過程是與眾不同的。因?yàn)閺淖畛蹼A段，規(guī)劃師、開發(fā)商、土地所有者和政府官員就坐在一起共同討論，提出一系列的問題。

我們最初提出的問題包括：我們將為城市創(chuàng)造一塊新的區(qū)域，那么一塊好的區(qū)域是什么樣的？它需要包含什么功能？會使當(dāng)?shù)鼐用竦纳町a(chǎn)生怎樣的改變？如何使它成為具有社會包容性的區(qū)域，做到兼收并蓄？

然后我們走訪了城市的各個(gè)角落，找出具有參考價(jià)值的區(qū)域，進(jìn)而篩選出可以進(jìn)行進(jìn)一步分析的區(qū)域。之后，我們思考這些區(qū)域的尺度（scale）、密度、功能的混合與城市建筑形態(tài)，進(jìn)而獲得了一系列符合本項(xiàng)目宗旨的城市設(shè)計(jì)原則。當(dāng)我們確立這些原則后，就可以與當(dāng)?shù)鼐用耖_展商議。我們問當(dāng)?shù)鼐用瘢骸澳銈冋J(rèn)為這些原則可以幫助我們設(shè)計(jì)好一個(gè)區(qū)域嗎？”如果他們不清楚，我們繼續(xù)說：“這周六咱們一起到處走一走好嗎？去金絲雀碼頭，去馬里波恩（Marylebone），一起看看這些區(qū)域哪里好，哪里不好。”

在真正落筆進(jìn)行設(shè)計(jì)之前，我們經(jīng)歷了以上一系列高強(qiáng)度的討論、調(diào)研、總結(jié)與深入民眾的研究。最后的設(shè)計(jì)圖稿充分展現(xiàn)了我們的愿景。我們的愿景并不是創(chuàng)造一個(gè)空中樓閣，而是深深扎根于居民實(shí)際需要的落地空間。我認(rèn)為城市設(shè)計(jì)并不是在城市上畫圖案，也不是去定義人們的生活模式。我對城市在幾千米的高空看起來是什么樣的并不感興趣，這并不重要。我看重的是人的體驗(yàn)。人行走在其中，坐在這里，生活在此處的感受。設(shè)計(jì)是否符合人的尺度，人在其中會感到舒適嗎？這些是我們需要關(guān)心的事情。

圖1 / Figure 1畢舍普教授在其辦公室接受專訪Professor Peter Bishop interviewed in his of fi ce

Q4 您如何為當(dāng)?shù)鼐用裉峁└玫纳罱?jīng)歷？

讓當(dāng)?shù)鼐用褡约憾x生活。我認(rèn)為城市改造并不是由設(shè)計(jì)師全權(quán)決定居民應(yīng)該如何去生活，反之，當(dāng)?shù)鼐用駪?yīng)當(dāng)在設(shè)計(jì)中扮演相當(dāng)重要的角色。作為城市設(shè)計(jì)師，我們需要與居民展開討論，理解他們的真實(shí)處境與實(shí)際需要，進(jìn)而思考，如何提高他們的生活品質(zhì)？如何不僅為現(xiàn)在，也為將來創(chuàng)造一個(gè)可以擴(kuò)展他們生活寬度的場所，使他們獲得更豐富的生活體驗(yàn)？我們的設(shè)計(jì)將如何為他們的孩子創(chuàng)造更好的生活與更多的機(jī)會？城市設(shè)計(jì)藍(lán)圖是很吸引人，但這其實(shí)是城市設(shè)計(jì)過程中相對簡單的一環(huán)。充分了解區(qū)域所處的社會經(jīng)濟(jì)與環(huán)境的語境，則是很多當(dāng)今城市設(shè)計(jì)師忽視的事情。

Q5 您出版了著作《臨時(shí)的城市》，討論由小著手的臨時(shí)、非固定性設(shè)計(jì)可以極大地豐富城市生活。您能談一談關(guān)于臨時(shí)城市主義的研究嗎？

我從擔(dān)任倫敦政府的“設(shè)計(jì)倫敦” (Design for London)總監(jiān)時(shí)開始關(guān)注“臨時(shí)城市”這一概念。倫敦是個(gè)無法被設(shè)計(jì)的城市，它不喜歡被規(guī)劃。因?yàn)樵谟?，土地大多是個(gè)人所有而不是國有資本所有，政府的力量也有意維持在偏弱的狀態(tài)。所以，坐在辦公室里為整個(gè)倫敦畫新藍(lán)圖這種自上而下的傳統(tǒng)設(shè)計(jì)模式是不現(xiàn)實(shí)的。于是，我們從大設(shè)想出發(fā)，由小設(shè)計(jì)作為切入點(diǎn)，尋找能夠有效與居民和土地所有者討論的方式，獲得大家的認(rèn)可與支持，進(jìn)而一起推動(dòng)設(shè)計(jì)成為現(xiàn)實(shí)。

比如，其中一個(gè)大設(shè)想是關(guān)于東倫敦的。倫敦東部地區(qū)是倫敦較為落后的區(qū)域，發(fā)展水平遠(yuǎn)不及西倫敦。這里原以制造業(yè)和港口運(yùn)輸業(yè)為主，因產(chǎn)業(yè)沒落而蕭條，帶來一系列民生與社會問題。在東倫敦更新計(jì)劃中，我們提出的其中一個(gè)設(shè)想是建立“綠帶”（green belt）?！熬G帶”將會為東倫敦建立充滿活力的自然景觀框架，改善生態(tài)環(huán)境，并為市民提供更多休閑游憩的公共空間。如果這個(gè)設(shè)想得以實(shí)施，將極大提高此地住宅的自然環(huán)境語境。以此概念為主導(dǎo)，我們首先確認(rèn)擁有什么資源：東倫敦有大量的小塊閑置土地。于是我們測量、記錄這些土地，并思考如何進(jìn)行極小的改動(dòng)把這些地塊連接在一起。下一步，我們?yōu)槊恳粋€(gè)地塊做出了景觀更新方案，并完善管理它們。這些小小的地塊連接在一起形成了“綠帶”。最后，我們完善整體城市設(shè)計(jì)方案，把“綠帶”與東倫敦的每個(gè)小范圍區(qū)域中心、交通站點(diǎn)、河道、公園、居民區(qū)等地點(diǎn)進(jìn)行對接，形成一個(gè)網(wǎng)絡(luò)式的開放空間系統(tǒng)。

在設(shè)計(jì)過程中，我們從來不會說“讓我們重新規(guī)劃這里”，而是首先把設(shè)計(jì)人員放到該區(qū)域中，與當(dāng)?shù)厥忻駥υ?，充分了解居民如何在這里生活。我們尊重現(xiàn)有的事與物，這不光包括古建筑，更是包括地方特色的文化、城市回憶與日常生活風(fēng)貌等動(dòng)態(tài)城市遺產(chǎn)。這些點(diǎn)點(diǎn)滴滴雖然不會在任何一本著名旅游書上出現(xiàn)，卻組成了這座城市的肌理。我們的設(shè)計(jì)原則很簡單：尋找場地的缺失，確立改進(jìn)的方向，在有限的條件下尋找最佳方案。

我們發(fā)現(xiàn)在與當(dāng)?shù)鼐用駵贤〞r(shí)，要以更貼近生活的方式交流。如果提問抽象的問題，譬如“你對20年后的這個(gè)區(qū)域有什么設(shè)想？”他們常常不知道如何回答。如果我們問“社區(qū)如何變化會使你的生活變得更好，能列舉五項(xiàng)嗎？”他們會說“哦，好的，我能告訴你十項(xiàng)”。我們同時(shí)發(fā)現(xiàn)，有些人會說：“我家附近有棵樹死了，政府能幫忙重新栽一棵嗎？”我們會回答：“好的，我們這周六一起來栽樹怎么樣？”于是我們一起去買樹，挖坑然后把樹放進(jìn)去，就這么干脆利落。而這簡單的行動(dòng)讓市民感受到被賦予了力量。他們感到：政府來到我門前跟我探討，我對城市的建議是有用的。

這個(gè)過程使臨時(shí)城市主義成為一個(gè)可以讓改變快速發(fā)生的機(jī)制，以“潤物細(xì)無聲”的方式更新城市。同時(shí)，這個(gè)過程可以提高市民對所處環(huán)境的意識，改變他們觀察城市的方式。附加效果是，這個(gè)過程真的很有趣。在我的眼中，城市包含豐富的體驗(yàn)。所以，臨時(shí)城市主義可以指一個(gè)報(bào)亭、一個(gè)社區(qū)小劇場，也可以是街頭演奏音樂的人，因?yàn)檫@一切小小的事與物都讓我們的城市變得更加多姿多彩。我不想生活在一座所有事物都被精確擺放的城市。我希望城市能稍微有一點(diǎn)彈性，有一點(diǎn)松散，給生活在其中的人們一些作出個(gè)人貢獻(xiàn)的機(jī)會與空間。

圖2 / Figure 2國王十字總圖 / King’s Crossing Masterplan

Q6 您目前正在進(jìn)行哪些研究項(xiàng)目？

我目前在關(guān)注幾個(gè)研究主題。一個(gè)主題是關(guān)于住房供應(yīng)。住房缺乏是英國目前面臨的一個(gè)核心焦點(diǎn)問題。很多人在討論如何建造足夠的住房，而我的關(guān)注點(diǎn)是如何建立好的社區(qū)。我感興趣的問題包括：①建筑形態(tài)與成功社區(qū)之間有著怎樣的關(guān)系？②對于成功的社區(qū)，在興建住房之外我們還需要布局哪些其他元素？③建設(shè)社區(qū)的步驟是怎樣的？④如何讓社區(qū)獲得自主權(quán)，建立自己的社會網(wǎng)絡(luò)體系，并迅速成長為成熟社區(qū)？

第二項(xiàng)研究是我與北京建筑設(shè)計(jì)院的合作項(xiàng)目。我們對倫敦與北京兩座城市進(jìn)行比較研究，我們尤其關(guān)注對信息收集與應(yīng)用的不同方式。另外，我將為今年九月舉辦的首爾雙年展設(shè)計(jì)倫敦展廳。與此同時(shí)，我的事務(wù)所承接很多城市設(shè)計(jì)項(xiàng)目。

圖3 / Figure 3國王十字區(qū)域旁的辦公樓 / Of fi ce Building in King’s Crossing

Q7 能談一下您最近的城市設(shè)計(jì)項(xiàng)目嗎？

我最近剛完成柏京（Barking）地區(qū)的整體設(shè)計(jì)方案。柏京地處東倫敦邊緣，作為一個(gè)較為落后的區(qū)域，城市更新的浪潮剛剛來襲。這里有條古老的河流叫做羅丁河（Roding），河畔有一座廢棄的小碼頭。河流和柏京區(qū)域中心之間是一座美麗的公園，公園里有一座歷史悠久的修道院。我首先制定了連接區(qū)域中心與羅丁河的設(shè)計(jì)策略，隨后在整體設(shè)計(jì)方案中對公園進(jìn)行了更新并對河畔空間進(jìn)行了激活。這是一個(gè)很令人著迷的區(qū)域，當(dāng)?shù)鼐用駚碜圆煌姆N族，并具有很強(qiáng)的創(chuàng)業(yè)精神。同時(shí)，這里有著豐富的文化歷史資源，這也是我試圖在整體設(shè)計(jì)方案中呈現(xiàn)的。

第二部分 中英城市設(shè)計(jì)洞悉與展望

Q8 在中國，城市設(shè)計(jì)師和城市規(guī)劃師的區(qū)別還不明確。您同時(shí)是城市設(shè)計(jì)師和城市規(guī)劃師，請問在英國，城市設(shè)計(jì)師的角色是什么？

我認(rèn)為城市設(shè)計(jì)師和城市規(guī)劃師的角色是相似的。但是城市規(guī)劃中太技術(shù)性的層面并不吸引我。我感興趣的是如何提出概念，幫助城市變得更好，如何拿出最好的策略，以及如何把策略在紙上呈現(xiàn)出來。

Q9 集約開發(fā)是倫敦一項(xiàng)重要空間發(fā)展策略，旨在開發(fā)城市中的棄置空間，為創(chuàng)造更緊湊的中心城區(qū)和緩解對周邊區(qū)域的壓力。您從城市設(shè)計(jì)角度怎樣看待這一策略呢？

集約開發(fā)在原則上是正確的。這個(gè)策略起源于1999年由羅杰斯領(lǐng)銜并發(fā)表了以“城市復(fù)興” （Urban Renaissance）為目標(biāo)的“英國城市工作組”白皮書《走向城市復(fù)興》。這是一份相當(dāng)重要和意義深遠(yuǎn)的報(bào)告。這份文件研究了對英國城市有借鑒意義的大量歐洲城市，而并沒有包括北美的城市。它確立了我們現(xiàn)在認(rèn)為理所應(yīng)當(dāng)?shù)某鞘谢鶞?zhǔn)，比如:緊湊的城市優(yōu)于分散的城市；緊湊的城市更利于可持續(xù)發(fā)展；公共空間是有益的；城市中的公眾領(lǐng)域需要加強(qiáng)；空間綜合功能區(qū)劃值得提倡；合適的建筑密度是重要的；城市中最主要的交通方式應(yīng)該是公共交通、步行和自行車出行；城市建筑需要有優(yōu)秀的設(shè)計(jì)等。

這些準(zhǔn)則在現(xiàn)在看來也許平淡無奇，但在20世紀(jì)90年代并非如此。那時(shí)的英國仍然在興建大量的商場和位于城市邊緣外的購物中心。從20世紀(jì)初期以后幾乎沒有興建新的公共空間。那時(shí)的英國依然依賴著汽車出行，城市中大力興建公路，人們認(rèn)為汽車是城市交通中最重要的交通工具。為強(qiáng)化市場機(jī)制，自從1986年大倫敦的議會被撤銷開始，大倫敦沒有自己的市長也沒有一個(gè)統(tǒng)一的法定規(guī)劃文件對城市發(fā)展進(jìn)行協(xié)調(diào)?！坝鞘泄ぷ鹘M”是1997年在一屆很有改革精神的工黨政府委托下展開研究的。直到2000年，肯·利文斯通成為倫敦的第一位民選市長，采納了這些先進(jìn)的概念，并逐步創(chuàng)造實(shí)施條件。那時(shí)制定的發(fā)展議程也一直沿行到現(xiàn)在。

這些城市設(shè)計(jì)標(biāo)準(zhǔn)在本質(zhì)上仍是正確的。但是我認(rèn)為倫敦為集約開發(fā)策略所進(jìn)行的規(guī)劃并不夠完善。在倫敦的規(guī)劃中批準(zhǔn)了很多摩天大樓和錯(cuò)誤選址的建筑，迫使現(xiàn)在倫敦的建筑密度在英國語境下已趨于不可持續(xù)發(fā)展的水平。所以，我認(rèn)為近十年來倫敦的規(guī)劃有其失敗性，因?yàn)樗]有把堅(jiān)實(shí)的城市原則嚴(yán)格地付諸于應(yīng)用。

圖4 / Figure 4國王十字區(qū)域上的廣場 / Square of King’s Crossing

Q10 您對50年后的倫敦有何展望？

倫敦將會與現(xiàn)在差不多。當(dāng)今有很多關(guān)于智慧城市的討論。我認(rèn)為世界上最智慧的城市之一是阿姆斯特丹。你可以用行走與騎自行車的方式體驗(yàn)城市。其實(shí)，倫敦也算是一個(gè)智慧城市。我認(rèn)為，智能城市的核心是自動(dòng)駕駛車輛這一觀點(diǎn)完全是無稽之談。

智慧城市這一概念可以追溯到“英國城市工作組”。一個(gè)智慧的城市是緊湊的，是強(qiáng)化功能混合的，是以人為本的。你可以選擇走路，也可以選擇騎行。這才是智慧城市的幾大核心要素。我認(rèn)為倫敦會繼續(xù)這一策略，這將有助于倫敦成為一個(gè)非常激動(dòng)人心，舒適并富有刺激的地方，吸引世界上的每個(gè)人都希望來此居住生活。最有才華的人將會被吸引到倫敦，在這里享受精彩絕倫的生活方式。這些是倫敦需要保持和繼續(xù)的。倫敦已經(jīng)有絕大多數(shù)必備條件，它需要在此道路上繼續(xù)發(fā)展。

Q11 您認(rèn)為未來倫敦的城市發(fā)展將會面臨怎樣的挑戰(zhàn)？

有很大的挑戰(zhàn)。其中最大的一個(gè)挑戰(zhàn)是解決與英格蘭東南部和中部地區(qū)的協(xié)同發(fā)展關(guān)系。其中包括認(rèn)識到高速鐵路能為區(qū)域間發(fā)展起到的作用和為計(jì)劃新增住宅找到適合的位置。這些全部是區(qū)域間的問題，而并不包含在倫敦城市區(qū)域邊界內(nèi)。這是倫敦面臨的最大挑戰(zhàn)。但由于倫敦的行政職能邊界不分明，英國目前并沒有地區(qū)范圍規(guī)劃機(jī)制去促使這個(gè)討論進(jìn)行展開。

Q12 您認(rèn)為未來中國的城市發(fā)展會面臨怎樣的的挑戰(zhàn)？

我認(rèn)為中國在迎頭趕上。我與北京設(shè)計(jì)院有不少合作，他們做的事情是非常有趣的，也提出了正確的研究問題。與兩三年前相比，我通過去年的北京之行看到北京有著顯著的進(jìn)步。北京的空氣質(zhì)量變好了，有更多人騎自行車，街道生活也變得更加豐富。我認(rèn)為北京正在沿著一條正確的道路發(fā)展。目前很關(guān)鍵的一點(diǎn)是土地利用與交通的關(guān)系，另一點(diǎn)是發(fā)展空間綜合功能區(qū)劃，而不是沿襲傳統(tǒng)的單一功能區(qū)劃。在這兩點(diǎn)上，倫敦已經(jīng)取得了長足發(fā)展。

圖5 / Figure 5國王十字區(qū)域的車站 / Station of King’s Crossing

我們并沒有完全禁止倫敦市中心的汽車使用，但通過制定相關(guān)規(guī)則使開車變得昂貴。人們可以選擇開車來上班，但這一天下來會花掉600～700元人民幣的交通擁擠附加費(fèi)和停車費(fèi)。所以人們選擇騎自行車，這將節(jié)約一半的時(shí)間，并且沒有任何費(fèi)用。這意味著倫敦街道提供的體驗(yàn)變得更美好，空氣質(zhì)量也變得更好。現(xiàn)在倫敦街道上的空氣質(zhì)量令人感到愉悅。當(dāng)你改善了城市的條件，人們會更多地選擇步行和騎自行車，他們將更少地選擇汽車出行。如果我們選擇不改善城市的條件，人們的選擇會截然相反。

重視空間綜合功能區(qū)劃也是非常重要的一點(diǎn)。英國在20世紀(jì)60年代廢棄了傳統(tǒng)的單一功能區(qū)劃。倫敦得以良好運(yùn)行的其中一點(diǎn)原因是它擁有令人難以置信的功能混合性。所以，不同功能與活動(dòng)的協(xié)同是至關(guān)重要的。這意味著人們可以隨時(shí)會面，隨時(shí)交流溝通。北京、上海和廣州的部分區(qū)域也有這樣的特質(zhì)。但我認(rèn)為中國城市面臨的一個(gè)很大挑戰(zhàn)是：他們是否做好準(zhǔn)備欣然接受空間綜合功能區(qū)劃？比如，倫敦大學(xué)學(xué)院沒有校園，地處城市中心。這意味著我可以在五分鐘步行范圍內(nèi)到達(dá)其他人的辦公室、工作室、政府、咖啡店和商店。這對生產(chǎn)知識的效益起到令人難以置信的有效作用。

另外，中國同時(shí)進(jìn)行城市更新和城市擴(kuò)張。所以，中國城市還面臨的一個(gè)挑戰(zhàn)是如何慢下來。中國在建設(shè)、開發(fā)和建造領(lǐng)域是非常令人欽佩的，但是你們做得太快了，這使設(shè)計(jì)質(zhì)量受到了折損。對于很多項(xiàng)目，如果你建造的項(xiàng)目預(yù)期矗立100年而不是20年，那么一年的設(shè)計(jì)期限并不算什么。我認(rèn)為，具有成熟度的建設(shè)對于設(shè)計(jì)和規(guī)劃過程事關(guān)重要。

第三部分：城市設(shè)計(jì)教育

Q13 您認(rèn)為一個(gè)年輕的城市設(shè)計(jì)師需要具備什么技能？

他們將具備多元化技能。我認(rèn)為一個(gè)杰出的城市設(shè)計(jì)師需要具備以下3點(diǎn)，這也是好的城市設(shè)計(jì)教育需要包含的。

第一點(diǎn)是城市設(shè)計(jì)技能。你必須能夠同時(shí)考慮街角、街道、社區(qū)、城市、地區(qū)等不同體量。同時(shí)，你需要能夠同時(shí)在不同尺度中不斷進(jìn)出思考。

第二點(diǎn)是城市設(shè)計(jì)并不是一門單一學(xué)科，它是很多學(xué)科的交叉點(diǎn)。所以你需要自如地理解相關(guān)領(lǐng)域，比如建筑、城市規(guī)劃、生態(tài)學(xué)、考古學(xué)、能源、社會學(xué)和人類學(xué)等。你需要保持充足的好奇心，不斷探索，并不斷與不同領(lǐng)域的人交流。你是把所有事物連結(jié)在一起的關(guān)鍵一環(huán)。

第三點(diǎn)是城市設(shè)計(jì)的客戶通常是不同群體而非單一個(gè)體。你的客戶是社區(qū)，你的所有付出都會對其產(chǎn)生影響。所以，你做的任何事并非中立，也都有其政治指向。當(dāng)你在一個(gè)居民區(qū)做了任何改動(dòng)，你的天平已經(jīng)偏向了一方。我總試圖教育我的學(xué)生：不要否認(rèn)城市設(shè)計(jì)是一項(xiàng)從根本上改變居民生活平衡的政治活動(dòng)。你肩負(fù)著責(zé)任。

Q14 您認(rèn)為如何使城市設(shè)計(jì)教育變得更好？

城市設(shè)計(jì)不是繪畫作品。一幅繪畫作品不能成為評價(jià)設(shè)計(jì)的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)。好的設(shè)計(jì)有完整的內(nèi)容，扎根于現(xiàn)實(shí)，以人為本。

Part 1: Urban Design Practice and Research

Q1 You have led some of the most infl uential and successful urban regener-ation projects in the most sophisticated sites in London. What is your favourite project?

I have to say King’s Cross Development. I have been working on it for six years. It was a hard negotiation with some brilliant people. I think among the various teams involved, we produced a global exemplar. It’s been visited from all over the place. I think actually it hasn’t yet produced anything which I look at and think, oh, we have got that wrong. Maybe some of the public spaces are bigger than what they should be.

Q2 Were there any signi fi cant challenges for King’s Cross Development?

Huge challenges. I don’t think we ever doubted that we were going to produce a good scheme.The developers and masterplanners were committed to it. And the developers had a long term stake. Everyone wanted it to be good not just for now, but in 10, 30, 50 and 100 years time. The toughest challenge was to make it relevant to the local area. King’s Cross sits just off Euston Road and next to the Bloomsbury which is one of the wealthiest districts in Europe. However, the area around the site is impoverished.

Our starting point was from a set of questions about local people: ①Why would this development make any difference to the lives of the people around it? ② How can we avoid it becoming a rich enclave in a poor area? ③ How do we avoid it to becoming a place that the local people don’t feel comfortable to go into?

There was also a fascinating challenge was getting across the political obstacle course. There are so many interests groups. So many people have views and opinions. They all felt that they had a voice. So negotiating with all the stakeholders and getting political concent was the second huge challenge.

Q3 Can you briefly talk about the process of urban design for King’s Cross?The normal process is the land owner forms a partnership with the developer and then decide how they can maximise their return. Then the planning process is to say, well that’s too big or that doesn’t work. You then take bits off. It’s not a very satisfactory process. King’s Cross was unusual. Because we started with a blank piece of paper. The planners, the developers, the landowners and the politicians started off by asking a set of questions.

The first set of questions we asked are: We are going to create a new piece of the city, what does a good piece of city looks like? How does it function? How does it make a difference to the lives of people living next door? How does it feel inclusive? Secondly we said: let’s go and observe bits of the city, and decide what kind of cities we think are good. Let’s analyse them.Thirdly we thought about the scale, the density,the mix and the urban form. Later, we arrived with a set of principles and roles out of that.Once we got that, we can agree with a wider group of people in the community. We asked“does this feel right? Do you think this will make a good place?” If they didn’t know, we then said, “l(fā)et’s all go to the Canary Wharf on a Saturday. Let’s all go to Marylebone. Let’s walk around together and say what is good and what is bad about this place.”

It was an incredibly intense process before we put pen to paper, which is also the key thing. The drawings were informed by a vision of what we wanted to achieve. That’s what I think is embedded in reality. I have absolutely no time for urban designers who believe it’s about drawing patterns on a city or patterns on people’s lives. I really don’t care what a piece of city looks like from ten thousands feet in the air. It’s irrelevant.The interests are the experience of being there,sitting there, walking around it. How it feels. Is it of human scale? Do I feel comfortable? That’s the level that you should be working at.

Q4 How you provide interesting lives for local people?

Let them define their interesting lives. That’s important. It’s not about deciding what you think is good for people but having a debate with people, and understanding what their conditions are. What can make improvements? And how you create a place where they can expand their lives, not just now but into the future? How can we create the conditions where their children might have a better life and better opportunities?The actual physical drawing of urban design is fascinating, but that is the easy part. Getting the social economic and environmental context right, that’s what a lot of urban designers completely ignore.

Q5 You have published an influential book called Temporary Urbanism which is about making small interventions to make life better in a dense city. Can you talk about this research?

I’ve been interested in Temporary Urbanism because when I was appointed as the director of Design for London, it’s pretty obvious you couldn’t design for London. London doesn’t like being planned. It’s driven by private investments not by public investments. The government is weak, deliberately weak in UK cities. And actually, we think that’s quite good because it allows the individual to drive the economy. There is no point sitting in an office making great plans for London. Instead, our approach was to think about the big ideas and then think of ways which we can then discuss with people, get the momentum and start to make things happening.

For example, one of the big ideas was about East London. London is going to grow eastwards, if we could create a green grid for East London,that would create a vibrant landscape framework for new growth, in terms of leisure, topography and ecology. If that happened, it would mean the housing that goes into the new growth is sitting in a far better environmental context. Having this big idea in mind, fi rst we looked at what we had. We were aware that we had a lot of lands.Cities do have a lot of little bits of spare land. So we mapped them, recorded them and considered how we could make tiny interventions to link them up and join them. Thirdly, for each piece of land, we had a little proposal to re-landscape and manage it properly. That created a green grid.Finally, we developed the proposals into ways that integrated them with town centres.

We wouldn’t go and say, let’s replan this. We were saying, first of all, let’s move out our design team into the area, talk to local people and understand from them how the neighbourhood works. We valued what’s there. We were not just valuing the old historic buildings, but also the culture, the memories, the everyday urbanism. The stuff which is not going to appear in any great tourist book but it’s the fi ne grid of fabric of the area. The principle is simple. It’s about define what is missing, then work within the possible.

We found that actually, if you engage with local people, and say, “what’s your big idea for this place in 20 years time?” They would look at you blankly. If you say, “what would you like to do?Can you name fi ve things that would make your lives better?” They would reply, “oh, yeah, I have got ten.” And we also then found out, some people said, “well, they should just replace the tree on my corner.” And we then responsed, “why don’t we do it on a Saturday?” We then went to buy a tree, digged a hole and put the tree in.What it meant was that people felt empowered.They felt “here is the government coming to talk to us”—there is a dialogue and they have power.This process makes Temporary Urbanism a mechanism by which you can make things happen, change little bits of the city and change the way people look at their city. It makes people have a bit more awareness of the environment they are living in. The plus effect is its fun.

Cities should be about very rich experience.Therefore, Temporary Urbanism can be a kiosk,a little theatre, or someone playing music on the street. That makes the city richer. I don’t want to live in a city where everything is planned and allocated. I like the idea that a city is slightly loose. And people have the space to make their individual contributions.

Q6 How about your current research project? What are you looking at at the moment?

I’m looking at a number of research projects.One is about housing delivery, which is the problem of this country- not building enough housing. A lot of people have been questioning of how we build more housing. But what I’m interested in how we build good communities.I’m very interested in the relationship between built form and what underpins a successful community. What do we need to put in other than housing and how you phase it? The fi nal and the most interesting thing is: how do you get that community to take ownership and grow its social networks and mature quickly? That’s one piece of research.

I’m also doing another research project with Beijing Institute of Architectural Design comparing London and Beijing. Particularly looking at our completely different ways we collect and use data. And I’m also doing the London Pavillion for Seoul Biennale in September and writing a couple of books. At the same time, I have my own practice, and we have got a lot of masterplanning work.

Q7 Can you talk about one of your recent projects?

I have just finished a set of masterplans for Barking in east London. Barking is a really interesting place right at the east end of London.The wave of regeneration is just beginning to hit it. It’s an impoverished area. They got some good people there, and they asked me first of all to look at a design strategy that connects the town centre with this old river called Rod-ing. There is a little port which is now disused.Between the river and the town centre is a very beautiful park with an ancient abbey in. So I did a masterplan to re-con fi gure the park, and made the connection from the town centre to the river which reactivated the river. It’s a great project and a fascinating area. A large number of local people are from ethnic backgrounds. It's also a very entrepreneurial place. The history is mainly cultural history which we are trying to capture in this project.

Part 2: Urban Design Insights for the UK and China

Q8 You are both an urban designer and an urban planner. In China, the role of an urban designer is still not very clear.In the context of the UK, What is the role of an urban designer in the UK?

I think Urban Planning and Urban Design is the same thing, but there is a very large part of urban planning which is very technical. That is not particularly interested to me. I’m interested in how you come up with ideas to help places to be better, how you come up with strategies, and how you can draw them.

Q9 Regarding the process of intensification in central London. What were the main approaches from the urban design point of view?

The principle is right. The principle stems from the Urban Task Force report, which was chaired and published by Richard Rogers in 1999Towards an Urban Renaissance. It’s an incredibly important document. What that document did was to look at the European cities instead of American cities. It established what we take for granted now—that a compact city is better than a dispersed city. A compact city is more sustainable. Public space is good. Public realm is important. Mixed-use is very good. Density is important. Public transport, walking and cycling are the ways in which you should be getting around the city. You should have good and beautifully designed buildings.

That is so obvious now but was not in 1990s. We were building shopping malls and out of town retail and there had been no new public space since the early 20th century. We were still thinking that cars were the way to get around the city and we were still building roads. The Urban Task Force report was commissioned by the Labour Government in 1997, which was a pretty radical government. It was launched through Ken Livingstone - the first Mayor of London. London pioneered these ideas. It created the conditions and set the agenda that we are still following today.

Those principles are still fundamentally right.Haven’t said that, I don’t think London is planning its intensi fi cation well enough. It’s allowing too many bad tall buildings or poorly sited buildings. We are now pushing densities to levels are not sustainable in a UK context. So I think there is a failure in planning in the last 10 years in London to really take a very solid urban principles and rigorously apply them.

Q10 What’s your vision of London in 50 years?

London will stay more or less the same. There is a lot of talks about smart cities. I think one of the smartest cities on the planet is Amsterdam.You can walk, you can cycle around it. Actually,London is quite a smart city too. A smart city is constructed around autonomous vehicles is completely nonsense.

The idea of smart city goes back to the Urban Task Force. A smart city is compact, it’s centred around the individual. You can walk. You can cycle. It’s intensively mixed-use. That’s a smart city. I think London will continue with this strategy which will make it a very exciting, comfortable and stimulating place that everyone in the world would want to come and live in. The most talented people will be drawn to London and have a brilliant lifestyle here. That’s what London will have to maintain. It has got most of these ingredients, and it has to keep on developing.

Q11 Is there any challenges for the future of urban design in London?

Huge challenges. One of the biggest challenges will be working out the relationship to the southeast of England and the Midlands. Understanding what the high-speed rail networks could do.Working out what are the new houses going to be. All of these are regional issues, that are not going to be contained in London’s metropolitan boundaries. That’s London’s biggest challenge because we do not have any regional planning mechanisms for that debate to happen. The boundary for London is arbitrary.

Q12 What do you think are the challenges for the future of urban design in Chinese cities?

I think China is catching up. I do some work with the Beijing Institute of Architectural Design. I think what they are doing is interesting. They are asking the right questions. And comparing my last visit to Beijing last year and the one 2 or 3 years earlier, I thought Beijing was considerably better. The air quality was better, more people were cycling, and there was more street life. I believe Beijing is absolutely going in the right direction. The critical thing is the relationship between land-use and transport.

I guess that is the next big move for Chinese cities. The second thing is to develop mixed-use to single-use zoning. Those are the two key things which London has made a lot of progress on.

We haven’t stopped using cars in central London, but we made it very expensive. I could drive my car to work today. It would cost me 600-700 RMB a day for the congestion charge and parking. Therefore, I got on my bike. It takes me half the time, and it costs me nothing.It means the experience of being on the street in London and the improvement of the air quality.The air quality experiences on the street is a lot more pleasant. If you create good urban conditions, people walk and cycle, they use their car less. If you don’t, it goes the other way.

Then the second thing is the importance of mixed-use zoning. We abandoned the idea of big single-use zoning around the 1960s. London works because it’s incredibly mixed. Therefore, the synergy of different uses and activities becomes really important. It means people are constantly meeting and exchanging ideas. That is the mix-use nature of central London, which is incredibly important. Part of Beijing, part of Shanghai, and part of Guangzhou have that. But I think the very big challenge for Chinese cities is whether they are prepared to embrace mix-use zones. For example, UCL doesn’t have a campus. It sits right in the middle of the city which means I can have access to people’s offices,to practice, to government, to cafes, to shops,everything within 5 minutes of walk. That’s incredibly effective in generating the knowledge economy.

China is now moving into a phase of urban renewal at the same time of urban expansion.Therefore, another challenge to me about China is China has to slow down. China is incredibly impressive at building, developing and constructing, but you are doing it too quickly.It compromises the design quality. For many projects, design for a year is nothing if what you build now will last 100 years rather than 20 years as a result. I think building in maturity to the design and planning process is important.

Part 3: Urban Design Education

Q13 What do you think a young urban designer should equipt?

They are going to be multi skilled. There are three things that distinguish an urban designer for me which I think have to embedded in good urban design education.

First of all is the skill. You have to be able to think simultaneously about the street corner,street block, the neighbourhood, the city, the region, etc. And you have to be able to constantly move in and out the scale at the same time.

The second thing is, there is no such thing as an urban design discipline. It is the intersect of many disciplines. Therefore, you have to be comfortable understanding all the related fi elds including architecture, planning, ecology,archaeology, energy, sociology and anthropology, etc. You have to be curious enough to know you are continually exploring and engaging with people with different specialities. You are the point that pulls everything together.

The third thing is because you are dealing with groups of people, you don’t have a single client.Your client is the community which all your work is going to affect. Therefore, everything you do has a political implication. It’s not neutral. If you make an intervention in a neighbourhood, you tip the scale one way or another. One thing I always try to teach my students is: Never tell me what you will be doing will not have political implications. Don’t deny it’s a political activity that fundamentally shifts the balance in people’s lives. You have the responsibility.

Q14 How do you want to make urban design education better?

Urban design is not a drawn product. A drawn product is not how you judge a design. Good design has the integrity in content, roots in the reality and takes great care of people.