隕石收藏也瘋狂

Host： For the rest of the hour， were going to talk about 1）meteorites. They are more than just 2）a chunk of rock. They can be a time 3）capsule， or ancient secrets of our solar system may be locked up in its core. And it turns out that one of the largest meteorite collections， the largest one， the largest collection held by any university is just up the road from us in Tempe. And joining us now to talk about the collection is Meenakshi Wadhwa.

She is director of the Center for Meteorite Studies and a professor in the School of Earth and Space Exploration at ASU. Lets talk about your collection. How did you get a collection？

Meenakshi Wadhwa： So， this is actually part of a great story too. Theres a very famous collector， an Arizonan， Harvey Nininger， who had this wonderful collection. He is probably the person who I would say was responsible for bringing up the science of meteorites to the United States. And he had this great passion for meteorites. Actually， in the natural world in general but a great passion for collecting these space rocks. And he did this in the 1930s and 40s， and he had this wonderful collection， probably the best in the world. And towards the late 1950s， he actually sold—he was basically deciding what to do with it and wanted it to have a life beyond his， at some point， and he sold half of it to the British Museum.

Host： Wow.

Wadhwa： And so Arizona State， actually， very forward looking at the time—this was an era when， you know， 4）Sputnik happened， 1959， and they were thinking， well， you know， space， this is the new frontier. This is where we ought to go. And they had the vision to actually buy the rest of his collection， and thats where the core of our collection comes from.

Host： Is there a great black market in meteorites？

Wadhwa： Oh， gosh. There is a great community of collectors and people that like to collect and buy meteorites.

Host： Is that a 5）euphemism for a black market？

Wadhwa： Well， its an interesting question. Im sure there are people that collect meteorites in places that arent—where the laws dont actually allow them to collect these things. Im sure that happens. But basically， we， you know， we as a community of scientists would not have some of the most interesting samples to study if there was not a community of people interested in collecting these things in places that are hard to get to and so...

Host： Is the big catch now the one that blew up over Russia？ Are people looking for pieces？ Have they found the pieces？

Wadhwa： Yes， they have， actually. Within hours of the news， there were people 6）converging on Chelyabinsk.

Host： So what do you have to do to get one of those pieces？

Wadhwa： Well， Ive actually—we dont have a piece of that meteorite in our collection yet...

Host： Would do they go to auction， something like that...？

Wadhwa： Possibly.

Host： Can you tell immediately by looking at a rock that its a meteorite or not？

Wadhwa： Most times， but I actually…

Host： Really？

Wadhwa： Yeah， I actually just spent two months in 7）Antarctica—two months ago， actually. I came back from there. And we were collecting meteorites out on the ice.

主持人：在接下來(lái)的時(shí)間里，我們來(lái)談?wù)勲E石。它們不僅僅是一塊塊石頭，而且是時(shí)間穿梭機(jī)，我們太陽(yáng)系的古老秘密或許就隱藏在其核心里。有結(jié)果顯示最大的隕石收藏之一、最大的隕石收藏品由坦培某間大學(xué)所擁有，該大學(xué)從我們這里沿路過(guò)去就是?，F(xiàn)在歡迎米內(nèi)克什·瓦德瓦加入到我們當(dāng)中，談?wù)動(dòng)嘘P(guān)該收藏的話(huà)題。

她是隕石研究中心的主管，也是美國(guó)亞利桑那州立大學(xué)地球與空間探索學(xué)院的教授。我們來(lái)談?wù)勀銈兊氖詹匕桑銈兪窃鯓拥玫绞詹仄返模?/p>

米內(nèi)克什·瓦德瓦：好的，這確實(shí)是個(gè)了不起的故事。有位很出名的收藏家，亞利桑那州的哈維·尼寧格，他曾是這些珍貴收藏品的主人。我可以斷定他是把美國(guó)隕石科學(xué)提到高點(diǎn)的一人，他對(duì)隕石充滿(mǎn)熱情。事實(shí)上，他不僅熱衷于收集這些太空石頭，他對(duì)整個(gè)自然科學(xué)都充滿(mǎn)熱情。他在20世紀(jì)三四十年代收集隕石，并擁有了這些珍貴的收藏品，可能也是世界上最好的隕石。到了20世紀(jì)50年代末，他基本上決定了如何處置這些收藏品，他要賣(mài)掉收藏品，某種程度上，他想改善自己的生活，于是他把一半隕石賣(mài)給了英國(guó)博物館。

主持人：哇。

瓦德瓦：而亞利桑那州那時(shí)確實(shí)很有遠(yuǎn)見(jiàn)，你知道，那是人造地球衛(wèi)星“伴侶號(hào)”發(fā)射后的1959年，正是劃時(shí)代的時(shí)期，他們認(rèn)為太空是個(gè)新的領(lǐng)域。這是我們應(yīng)該探索的領(lǐng)域，于是極有遠(yuǎn)見(jiàn)地買(mǎi)下了剩余的隕石，這就是我們的收藏品的主要來(lái)源。

主持人：隕石買(mǎi)賣(mài)是不是有很大的黑市存在？

瓦德瓦：噢，我的天。是有一個(gè)很大的收藏家社團(tuán)，那里的人們喜歡收藏和購(gòu)買(mǎi)隕石。

主持人：那是對(duì)黑市的委婉說(shuō)法嗎？瓦德瓦：呃，那是個(gè)有趣的問(wèn)題。我相信有人在法律不允許的地方收集隕石，我相信有那樣的事情發(fā)生。但是基本上，如果沒(méi)有一群人有興趣到達(dá)難以涉足的地方去收集這些東西，作為科學(xué)家的我們就不會(huì)有這些最讓人感興趣的樣品去研究，所以……

主持人：那個(gè)在俄羅斯爆炸的隕石是不是目前最大的收獲？人們都在尋找碎石嗎？他們找到碎石了嗎？

瓦德瓦：是的，他們確實(shí)找到了。新聞一播出幾個(gè)小時(shí)內(nèi)，人們就聚集在俄羅斯的車(chē)?yán)镅刨e斯克州那里。

主持人：那么你們要做些什么去獲得一塊隕石？

瓦德瓦：呃，事實(shí)上我，我們的收藏里還沒(méi)得到一塊那次的隕石……

主持人：他們會(huì)進(jìn)行拍賣(mài)，或類(lèi)似的活動(dòng)嗎？

瓦德瓦：有可能。

主持人：看到一塊石頭，你能否立刻判斷那是不是一塊隕石？

瓦德瓦：大多數(shù)時(shí)候能，但我實(shí)際上……

主持人：真的？

瓦德瓦：是的，事實(shí)上，就在兩個(gè)月前我花了兩個(gè)月的時(shí)間呆在南極洲，我才從那里回來(lái)，我們?cè)诒煅┑乩锸占E石。

Host： Theyre just sitting out there， arent they？

Wadhwa： Theyre sitting out there. In some places theres nothing but ice and the only dark rock that you see， thats a meteorite. But in other places， you actually go to these 8）moraines where theres lots of 9）terrestrial rocks mixed in. A lot of them look dark and heavy， and it takes your eye a little bit to get trained to seeing what meteorites look like. But when youre trained—when youre trained to look for these things， you can actually identify them fairly regularly and reliably.

Host： And which one is your most favorite of all in the collection？

Wadhwa： Yes. Actually， I will say my favorite one right now is this Mars meteorite， which we got just in the last couple of months. Its one that fell in Morocco last year， and it is only one of five known Martian meteorite falls. And so its the most recent one thats happened. Theres not been one in 50 years. And so， you know， if you want to understand something about Mars as a planet and you want to find something fresh and thats not been sitting around on Earth for very long and not 10）contaminated by terrestrial things， this is the rock to look at.

Host： How does that—how does it get from Mars to here？

Wadhwa： We heard earlier in the show， theres probably large impacts that are hitting Mars even today， and certainly in the past. And so there was a large impact on Mars sometime in the past and it 11）ejected these pieces from Mars and eventually its made its way to the Earth.

Host： Could there be pieces from other planets？

Wadhwa： Absolutely. So theres pieces of the moon that are meteorites that have landed on the Earth. Theoretical calculations show that， in fact， there could be 12）swapping of material between planets quite readily. And so absolutely， theres probably Earth meteorites on the moon， for example. And thats kind of a fascinating story in itself. You might actually find ancient Earth rocks somewhere lying around on the moon.

Host： Well， but if a meteorite comes in and it gets—its sitting here for a while， it gets contaminated by everything thats on Earth， what can you then learn from it about where it came from， or why is it important to look at it？

主持人：隕石就落在那里，是嗎？瓦德瓦：就落在那里。有些地方什么都沒(méi)有，只有冰雪，你看到的唯一的黑石頭就是隕石。但是有些地方，你會(huì)看到這些冰磧混雜了很多陸地的石頭，很多石頭看起來(lái)都是黑色和沉重的，你要費(fèi)點(diǎn)眼力，訓(xùn)練自己的眼睛去判斷哪些是隕石。當(dāng)你訓(xùn)練過(guò)去尋找這些東西，你確實(shí)能有規(guī)律并可靠地辨別出來(lái)。

主持人：在所有收藏品中你最喜歡的是哪一件？

瓦德瓦：是啊，事實(shí)上，目前我最喜歡的是這塊火星隕石，我們?cè)趲讉€(gè)月前得到的。那是去年落在摩洛哥的，也是已知的五塊火星隕石中的一塊，

而且是離現(xiàn)在最近的一塊，五十年才發(fā)生一次呀。所以，你知道，如果你想了解火星這個(gè)星球，如果你想找到落在地球沒(méi)多久、還沒(méi)被陸地污染的新鮮隕石，非這塊石頭莫屬。

主持人：隕石是怎樣從火星到達(dá)這里的？

瓦德瓦：我們之前聽(tīng)過(guò)一個(gè)節(jié)目提到，當(dāng)然在過(guò)去，甚至今天火星都有可能受到極大的撞擊。所以過(guò)去某個(gè)時(shí)候火星受到極大撞擊，迸射出這些碎石，最后落到地球上。

主持人：有些石頭會(huì)是從別的星球來(lái)的嗎？

瓦德瓦：絕對(duì)是。還有從月球來(lái)的隕石落到地球上。理論結(jié)果表明，事實(shí)上，星球之間的物品交換是很容易的，所以，舉個(gè)例子，月球上肯定也有地球的隕石。隕石本身就是個(gè)令人著迷的故事，你確實(shí)會(huì)發(fā)現(xiàn)地球古老的石頭就躺在月球的某處。

主持人：嗯，但是如果有塊隕石落下來(lái)一段時(shí)間，被地球上的物品污染過(guò)，你怎么判斷它來(lái)自哪里，找到這樣一塊隕石為什么那么重要？

Wadhwa： Yes. So some things do get 13）compromised when theyve been sitting around on the Earth， but there are other mineral components as well as， in some cases， organic materials in some of these meteorites that you can look at， that you can differentiate from Earth materials.

So even though there are contaminations or contaminants that can affect the meteorite， there is definitely a lot of information that you can learn about these. In fact， you know， a lot of times people wonder， you know， 14）meteoritics is such a small sort of 15）niche of very specialized science. But everything that we understand about the beginnings of the Earth， everything that we understand about beginnings of the solar system， what were made of， what the planets made of， the age of the Earth， all of that comes from studying meteorites. And， you know， we can learn a lot from that.

Host： Would that be a good topic for a novel， do you think？

Wadhwa： Absolutely. There are actually quite a few novels that have been written about meteorite impacts and， you know， 16）microbes being carried over here from other places. And yes， there are science fiction books that Ive certainly read very 17）avidly about that， but， yes...

Host： So what is the 18）holy grail of a meteorite collector？ What do you really wish for some day？

Wadhwa： Oh， boy， a piece of Mercury maybe. There was actually at this last Lunar and Planetary Science Conference， there was a talk about a possible Mercurian meteorite. Host： Would you know it if you found it？

Wadhwa： Thats the good question. I mean in the case of the Mars meteorites and the moon meteorites， theres actually—we have pieces of evidence from other sciences that can relate to that. And we know that these things are fairly solid. But in the case of a Mercurian meteorite， that would be a little bit harder to do， but it wouldnt be impossible. Hopefully there might be a sample returned sometime in the future.

瓦德瓦：沒(méi)錯(cuò)，所以當(dāng)隕石已經(jīng)落到地球（一段時(shí)間），我們就要采取折中的辦法，在某些情況下，可以通過(guò)找到隕石的其他礦物成分和有機(jī)物質(zhì)來(lái)跟地球的物質(zhì)區(qū)分開(kāi)。

所以盡管會(huì)有污染或污染物影響到隕石，一定會(huì)有很多信息幫你認(rèn)識(shí)到它們。事實(shí)上，你知道，很多時(shí)候有人會(huì)疑惑，隕星學(xué)只是特殊科學(xué)的一個(gè)小領(lǐng)域。但是我們要了解地球的一切起源，了解太陽(yáng)系的一切起源、人類(lèi)的起源、星球的起源、地球的年齡，所有這些都是來(lái)自對(duì)隕石的研究。所以你知道，我們可以從中學(xué)到很多。

主持人：你認(rèn)為那是寫(xiě)小說(shuō)的好題材嗎？

瓦德瓦：絕對(duì)是的。你知道，確實(shí)已經(jīng)有不少關(guān)于隕石碰撞的小說(shuō)，還有來(lái)自其他星球的微生物入侵地球。是的，我當(dāng)然曾如饑似渴地從科幻小說(shuō)中讀過(guò)相關(guān)的故事，但是，沒(méi)錯(cuò)……主持人：那么什么東西是隕石收藏者夢(mèng)寐以求的？你希望某天能真正得到什么？

瓦德瓦：哦，我的天，或許是一塊水星隕石吧。確實(shí)就在上次的月球與行星科學(xué)研討會(huì)上，對(duì)水星隕石的可能性進(jìn)行過(guò)討論。

主持人：你看到了會(huì)知道是水星隕石嗎？

瓦德瓦：這是個(gè)很好的問(wèn)題。我的意思是對(duì)于火星和月球隕石的情況，我們確實(shí)從其他科學(xué)中找到一些相關(guān)的資料，而且我們知道這些隕石都是固體。但是對(duì)于水星隕石的情況，是會(huì)有點(diǎn)難度，但也不是沒(méi)可能。希望有朝一日會(huì)得到一個(gè)樣品。